Tuesday, December 13, 2005

Whatever your feelings on capital punishment...

I'm not sure Tookie Williams should have been executed. And I feel very torn about the whole issue about the death penalty. I have heard valid arguments for and against, and...well, I'm just glad it's not up to me to make that call.

But I just wonder whether the decision of life or death should be in the hands of people I wouldn't trust to cat-sit.

...and here I was, thinking we were trying to have a fucking civilization here.

EDIT: I did NOT post this hoping for an argument in the comments, for or against the death penalty. No one is going to "change my mind" about this particular news item, and I will not be drawn into a discussion on the topic of capital punishment as a whole. Okay? I'm only saying....


Blogger Father of 3 said...

I am tempted to start the ball roling by saying something like...the same people who wanted to let Terri Schaivo starve to death were out in force last night trying to save the life of this P.o.S.... but I will adhere to your request and not start an argument. I do agree with you that it is a complex issue and I, too am glad I am not in the role of decision maker here.

13 December, 2005 13:17  
Blogger Andraste said...

Funny how people tend to switch sides of the life/death debate with this vs. the Schiavo case. Personally, I think she died a LONG time before that feeding tube came out.

I thought there was some Christian concept of redemption?

13 December, 2005 13:22  
Blogger Father of 3 said...

Redemption is a huge part of this equation. Just because I refer to this Crip founder as a P.o.S. doesn't mean I want to see him dead..or killed. (I just won't lose much sleep over this one.) The death penalty does, however, seem to be an antiquated solution.

13 December, 2005 13:35  
Blogger Andraste said...


But see how easy it was to get me to take the bait, even after I'd said I didn't want an argument?

"I came here for an argument."

"No you didn't."

13 December, 2005 13:40  
Anonymous stephenesque said...

String 'em up! ... er, the Christmas lights I mean. And put on the Pogues albums (and even that unmentionable one) "Tis the season of forgiveness after all. At least it was until Arnie put his foot through it.

13 December, 2005 13:45  
Anonymous nobody said...

Please, no Pythonisms.
I have no philosophical beliefs for or against the death penalty, I consider it a matter of taste.
I like Chinese food, Laura Ashley and the death penalty!
Simple, really.

13 December, 2005 13:46  
Blogger Andraste said...

Laura Ashley? REALLY?

And Stephen, thanks again. I had nothing to say today, but your last couple of days' posts actually helped me get over my little "blogger block."

13 December, 2005 14:03  
Anonymous nobody said...

Yes, really!
What of it Yank?
You drive a pick-up, for christ's sake!

13 December, 2005 14:23  
Blogger Andraste said...

Remain calm.

I was not impugning your tastes, I just didn't know if you were kidding.

And what's wrong with pick-ups? If you're going to be a 2-car family, one of the cars should be a truck. Eventually, moving furniture becomes necessary in all lives...

13 December, 2005 14:28  
Anonymous nobody said...

I was kidding! Still am!
I drive a pick-up meself.

13 December, 2005 14:47  
Blogger T. Leach said...

My question would be, why do we wait 25 years before we execute. If you're so sure he's guilty, do it right after sentencing. Don't wait until the man turned his life around and then kill him. That's even worse.

I'm just sayin'

13 December, 2005 16:16  
Blogger Andraste said...

Well said.

13 December, 2005 16:28  
Anonymous rachy said...

I'm just surprised that so many people are shocked/horrified that Schwarzenegger didn't grant clemency*. Wasn't it pretty clearly one of his election platforms?

And how does someone stay on death row for 25 years, were there appeals processes or what hindering a swift execution? And why on earth were there so many last-minute legal tricks? His supporters had 25 bloody years to try getting him off death row.

A debacle indeed.

* Not agreeing or disagreeing.

13 December, 2005 20:43  
Blogger Andraste said...

I'm not shocked & horrified that "The Terminator" refused to grant clemency. I'm shocked and horrified that he was elected in the first place, and that he has been given that kind of power over other people's lives.

That whole 25 year thing sticks in my craw too, but for all we know, there've been people working behind the scenes to save the guy all along. How do we know?

I didn't even know the fucker existed until now.

13 December, 2005 22:23  
Blogger Dr Maroon said...

Oh dear, I'll get me coat.

14 December, 2005 04:24  
Blogger LindyK said...

The Governator is turning out to be one of those things that Californians will undoubtedly kick our own asses for one of these days... but leave it to everyone to wait till the last minute before they make a big fuss, like 25 years wasn't long enough... if the Nobel committee had time to nominate him for peace honors (since they're notoriously timely... um yeah.), but I'm just saying...

14 December, 2005 10:27  
Blogger Mike S said...

Tookie took lives.
Tookie took many lives.

He was scared to death to die,
because all of them gangbangers
are real tough when they have
the steel in their hands but
they are really sad and pathetic
cowards who are powerless without
those guns.Tookie Williams only
wrote them books and spoke out
about the violence because he
was trying to get off death row.
Now he's been executed for his
crimes.I say,hang his picture
up in every grade and high school
and have a message attached.
This is how your life will end
up if you become a gang member
and lead yourself down the wrong
path into a life of crime,mayhem
and murder.I'm not a real big on
the execution thing but in this
case,somethings got to shake
these kids up.

14 December, 2005 14:42  
Blogger Andraste said...

Mike, in many ways I agree with you, but how do you know his motivations in speaking out against gang violence were insincere? How can anyone know if a criminal is redeemed or not? We'll never know now.

Tookie's entire life and death look to me like a cautionary tale for kids today, but sadly, I don't think a lot of gangbangers will look at it that way. I think they'll look at his execution as another example of racism, perpetrated on a black man by the white men in power.

14 December, 2005 14:59  

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